Warehouse X: Buffalo Trace’s Bourbon Experiment | Ep. 141

What exactly is Warehouse X at Buffalo Trace,  and why does everyone in bourbon keep talking about it?

In this episode of Arsenic Culture, Matt, Jason, and Drew dig into the legendary Warehouse X, Buffalo Trace’s experimental rickhouse where they test how light, airflow, temperature, and pressure impact aging whiskey. From early experiments to the wild results so far, this is bourbon science like you’ve never heard it before.

Would you trust science to make better bourbon, or should tradition always win?


#WarehouseX #BuffaloTrace #ArsenicCulture

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Transcript

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The preliminary experiment was just on light. Okay. Okay. Um, they, and what they determined and yeah. Was that light had no bearing. Yeah. On the which is wild. welcome back to arsenic culture where beer don't count, but bad decisions too. I'm Matt. I'm Jason. I do some hand stuff too. I don't Yeah. Yeah. I'm Drew. No hand stuff, Drew He had a beer in his hand. He did have a beer in his hand there, Wu-Tang. fly. Yeah. Oh yeah. Okay. That makes more sense. I was like, I done but he's like, yeah, I remember that when What's going on? fly away. I was gonna try and make it little hard. I didn't know I was gonna wait for him to start like elevating, like get higher puppets. I can do an shadow puppets. That's, I used to, I used to do like a dinosaur or something. Sure you did. Sure you did. That's a gang sign. Somebody's gonna come after you. I was wondering why other guys were doing dinosaurs. Gang signs back to me with their, uh, red bandanas over the wrist. Yeah. They didn't make a lot of sense. So, uh, how you guys doing? Great. How about you? Uh, beer don't count. So we're, I'm doing good. Um, we have done multiple episodes on bourbon, talking about different places in bourbon. Um, there is one thing that comes up. Multiple times on numerous occasions you won't. And you're the one that brings it up. Uh, which we've never been. You've never been there. Never been. Never been. I want to go And is a little place called Aspen. No, I'm just kidding. This is called Warehouse X, uh, at Buffalo Trace. Um, and it dawned on me that there's a lot of people that don't know what Warehouse X is. one of those people. I'm one of those people, you're one of those people. Um, but it is a really cool thing. So I thought it would be cool also to tell everybody what Warehouse X is, who doesn't know, um, Jason do all of that for us. There's There's a lot of my Yeah, you wa Yeah. Why not? yeah, yeah. I'm gonna sit down for this. Yeah, I'm gonna go take it. Job. I'll see you all later. I can talk. There is a lot of mystique around warehouse X, So we know, we know a lot of things. There are a lot data points they've collected throughout time being there. So think of I like how you just threw out data points. Like it's a, it is a very, just how I roll. standard thing. Yeah, that's, axis and a Y Axi. dunno. No, that's no data points. Actually, this is the X axis. This is the Y axis. It's so Just got that. Well done, sir. Well done. not, good. we're not good on the X and y. We're, we're just going warehouse sex. That's it. that's it. so I think this started, the idea kinda came from warehouse sex. so it's an experimental warehouse at buffalo Trace, Right. From 2006, we had the, the, the tornado went through there. Yep. The tornado didn't go through warehouse. No. Went No, it went through Buffalo Trace, right? So it took out a, rick house. yeah, I think it was actually warehouse C. It was, it was warehouse C, So Warehouse C tornado surviving. bourbons what we have. So eh, Taylor has, has a ball of that. that. Worth a lot of money. Worth a lot of money. I'd love to try it. Never have tried it. But if anybody's got a sample you send it to your boy. But why, what? Why was it so good? Why do people say it well, that's what they Wanted to recreate and figure out why Because you have when that tornado went through there, it didn't actually hurt the barrels, is what I, what looks like online. At of 'em, yeah. least most of 'em. Most of 'em Made it so the bar barrels that survived were open air for a while. Right. So all the elements, all the tornado shit after the tornadoes are still sitting there. So you had a lot of variables that made it good. That made it very good. Okay. One question I have. Yeah. How were those barrels. Sitting out before they were able to go, go out into the field and down into the river. and pick 'em all back up. Great question. Honestly, I don't see a timeline anywhere online 'cause I, I had the same question. That's what makes it so confusing is that like everything was kind of scattered. Not only the barrels, but also the information, how they got it. But the juice ended up not confusing. Well, here's why. All bourbon information is scattered. Like, Everything about bourbon. is scattered. Like it's not, There's no linear. page You can follow anywhere. true. Very true. But like in this specific incident, um, they were, the Jews ended up being so good. They were like, what the hell happened? Yeah, we need to figure it out. So they were like, let's create a product, quote unquote, which is the warehouse, and see if we can examine every single principle that could affect that bourbon and turn it into something miraculous that is warehouse X. So in seven years after the tornado. That's when they wanted to go ahead and start constructing warehouse X wheels turned a little slow, so seven. seven years later, you know. But what Warehouse X is gonna do it's, they want to be able to monitor everything. They want to be able to control all the variables to figure out what's working, what's not. They have an inside and outside temps, barometer readings and humidity. That's the Things they're looking at mainly. I mean, it's crazy. So that's Also lights they, That's right. There's a study. on Light also. There is. So there's five, chambers in Warehouse Six I did Yeah. Okay. Temperature's actually a big Yeah, So five chambers inside of warehouse X each has different settings, different light levels from a hundred percent natural light to complete darkness. They're looking at all those effects of everything. Uh, there's 150 barrels is all they can have in warehouse X total. That's nothing. That's Nothing to buffalo. Trace, no. Total square footage is like 4,500 You know, I saw it. I didn't write it down, but there's, There's only 30 barrels in each like little area. I think I saw 4,500 square foot. Okay, so you imagine like if somebody had a, a big house, a really nice house, 4,500 for a house, that's pretty big for a rick house. That ain't nothing. One level, not multi-story but, and to the people who have never been in, a, in a a normal size rick house. Yeah. Those things are like Stories tall. and Deep and wide. Nine, 10 level. So They're basically creating rooms. That are specific that's it. Yeah. And each room has, its a characteristics, right? Well, multiple, multiple characteristics. Right. Multiple charact, they, they can, they can assess different variables on each room. So they can, they can, well, I think what they're trying to do though is control it. So like they'll put all of'em at the same temp. Yes. And then Have five different settings of lighting, like different lights. What it does exactly. So like they can, they can monitor all the settings for each room, but they will vary in each one. So that way they can determine, the factorial then. on That I used another math term. after the x and Y I wasn't very good at math. though. Don't, don't confuse me. where were the variables? You said? Temp temp, Humidity. Barometer. So barometer is pressure. And then humidity. Humidity. And then lot. So four variables, right? So then it's like the four that I know of, there may have been more, but yeah, they said they collected like three and a half million data points on their first experiment or something. It's But it's, you basically multiply, isn't that like four by four by four by four? Isn't that how you come up with like, seems like I'm looking at graph table now. Look at little tables it depends. It depends on how they do the experiments. They don't run them all simultaneously. So they actually did the preliminary experiment was just on light. Okay. Okay. Um, they, and what they determined and yeah. Was that light had no bearing. Yeah. On the actual aging of the Berman, So they were, They have thoughts that, you know, a barrel close to a window. What age differently or taste differently? Did you somewhere else, do you know what that concept is? Where that concept came from? A, a, a barrel next to a a, um, like a window with light. The honey barrel. You ever heard the idea of the honey barrel? Well, yeah. So when I, when I was, I was not 21 statute of limitations. is I think at this point everybody understands that we started drinking We're 21. now. It's all matters. Yeah, I went to. Buffalo trace with my dad to to buy barrels of Blanton's and Elmer was still alive, but they rolled out a bunch of barrels and one of the barrels that my dad selected 'cause you get to pick which ones you want. And we, we drank from was one that had been sitting in a window. Yeah. Yes, exactly. That's it. We noticed something different in this barrel. And we ended up my my, my dad ended up choosing it to be bottled for the stores. But they're saying that we thought that then because it was like maybe the heat plus or the temperature plus the sunlight, you know, because everybody there, there's a lot of people that think that, and the whole concept behind the quote unquote honey barrel. Actually derived from certain barrels being exposed to daylight, natural UV radiation more than other barrels. Buffalo Trace did their warehouse X. The very first E experiment they did was to try to determine that, and they said it's buckets. Yeah. Yeah, it's fun. Crazy. So like you know what is not exposed to Lighten is still really good. Isn't never say Die Bourbon. That is our sponsor. We appreciate those guys. They're actually aged at sea for an indiscriminate amount of time. I don't really know how long. their way to, they make. They Go to England for a little Yeah. It actually gets on boats and they shake it get around. They get Yeah. Yeah. But we appreciate, never say die for sponsors. Yeah. You can check them out and you can, uh, online. Never say die bourbon.com, I guess. Wow. I should probably know that before I say very good. I I, I, I think it I might cut all that out. But yeah, you can check 'em out in they're at, um, most so I think it goes back to like what you were saying, Andrew. so you, you believe and, and I kind of do too, that a barrel close to a window. is Probably gonna taste different, Right. It's Has a higher chance of being a honey barrel. But it goes back to this, it takes me back to where Wild Turkey. So Wild Turkey. I went on a tour there. I was probably 23, so it's been over 20 years ago. That Dates me a little bit. But uh, anyway, Bruce Russell was actually our tour guide, which is, which was pretty cool. Pretty cool. Yeah. It's like his First job back in the States with them, whatever. But One thing they looked at there is that all the science, so when Wild Turkey did their big. Rebrand. Not rebranding, but um, expansion. Everything's computerized. Everything's like a NASA station back then 20 years ago, right? Like all this stuff. But the one thing, all the computers would say, this is your perfect profile for your bourbon. This is what it is now. This is what these barrels are now, this, this matches, this is perfect. Jimmy, the master distiller would try'em and say, no That's not it at all. Like that's off. So it never could replicate exactly what he wanted. So I think there's some of this too, right? So warehouse X can give you all the X's and O's, right? But it can't give you the human aspect of that pallet. This is there's gonna be some, error. this has really been the crux of the bourbon industry, probably, I guess whiskey in general, in my opinion, is that the overarching belief is that you can't. You can't just put everything in a machine and make it perfect. You can't just like run everything through an algorithm and get exactly what you want. And that is really what has made bourbon, even scotch, um, other comparable spirits. So endearing. It's romantic. Is that it is romantic. That's a great word for it. It it, it makes it feel so much more personal. Yeah. It makes it feel like something you want to get in touch with. It's, it's authentic. it's true. craft. it's artisanal. I be able to replicate this again. No, no. no. So what Buffalo Trace was trying to do is they were saying, well, you know what? Let's see how far we can go with this. So warehouse X in its four chambers, and I'll just go ahead and tell you real quick, it's five chambers because it's like imagine a big square. that a Wutang album? 1336 chamber. 36 yeah, that's a few more. But, uh, imagine, uh, a big square, right? So you got chamber A, chamber B, chamber C, chamber D, and a breezeway in the middle. Okay. Basically a hallway that kind of connects everyone. There's windows where you can see into the different chambers. They use the breezeway also. To age their barrels. You would, You, would think so. They do, they, called, it's almost like a control. Right. These are standard, um, conditions. That's, that's their, that's their control area for like just normal Kentucky conditions when they age. So people who don't know, not been in a Rick house, it's like wide open. And, you know, they use steam to control temperature top em, bottom and all that stuff. True. What, do each but the elements are just like Correct. What do each of those rooms, how are they enclosed? Do we know I've never seen it. Uh, This is one place I want to go. I've been on a lot of tours. of Buffalo trays. I've never seen Warehouse XI hope one day to see it. I've seen pictures. I've, I Googled it and I saw pictures. It's standard brick, it's brick, it's standard construction. So I imagine. Again, I've not been there and I don't see much, uh, comment on the actual construction of it, but I've seen the way it's shaped, but it's, it's essentially just brick on the outside and I think it's brick on the inside. It isn't the breezeway anyway, Okay. standard insulation, I think it's just probably standard insulated, but it's like we're in a house, we can control the temperature. Pretty acutely, you know what I mean? If we want to set the, if I wanna set the, the thermostat to 72, it's gonna stay at 72. We're just gonna have to keep circulating or whatever. So Well, and the temperature upstairs, depending on where your thermostat is, is gonna be a little bit higher. is one story. So it's everything is going to be uniform, more or less to what they want. But the breezeway is not controlled. So this is more or less open to the elements. I did not see how they were, it's in the it there and I'll show the camera in just a second. Okay, I this is warehouse X? Yeah. I mean, it's pretty small. based on like Yeah, very, very like I'm pretty, I'm pretty sure I've lived in a duplex. bigger than that, you know, like, yeah. And saw like the, the, the size that I saw was 4,500 square feet. And then I saw the picture and I was like, that don't even look like that. Looks like 1500 square feet. But like the breezeway says, it's more or less open conditions, which is typical of most rig houses. So I'm guessing it's just maybe there's like a window. You know what I mean? And they well, there's skylights on four, the got skylights too. Yeah. I thought the shape was weird. So like, did you show that to the camera? It's like a sloped roof. you gotta figure the ones up in the back will be a little bit warmer than the Well, the architect that designed it apparently compensated for that and the way he shaped it was supposed to keep everything even based on the, I guess the typical like weather patterns of that area. Like they took all South face. Exactly. They took all that into consideration. Yeah, it's fucking very wild. Yeah, so they, the first experiment they did was light and they were like, you know what? Light has nothing to do with it. But then what did they do? What did they figure out after I don't know. Oh, Oh, Sorry. Temperature. Yeah, temperature. course, Of course. That was an awesome segue. You were supposed to pick that up. I I got that. Yeah. Temperature, hotter is better. Um, so what they figured out is that temperature actually has an incredibly, uh, drastic effect on it. Temperature and pressure, which is So, so you think of the, tornado though, what you have there. You had temperature increase, decrease. Pressure, low pressure. Yeah. Every, Everything going crazy. So, but how, here's the thing. I wondered about the tornado. That's also a very short period of time. Like what a minute, two minutes. right? Where it's experiencing. Yeah. But you probably had, you probably had change condition up to that and after Yeah, but I mean, that's like maybe a couple of days, right? Like in the course of how long you're aging this bourbon. It's crazy to me that think, oh, well you know, I just thought of this. maybe the barrels went to Oz and, and they came back. That's exactly what it was. Dude, that's, that's a game changer right there. don't know why nobody's I figured of that. Like in the episode, that's done. Yeah. Um, red slippers, just clicker heels together and we're done. So, okay. So there is some science behind that. Um, a lot, not a lot. Some distilleries, one in particular, I can't remember the name of it. They. Criteria. They took this idea and they tried to turn it into a, um, maybe a marketing thing, maybe in an actual scientific, uh, aspect of their bourbon making, but they wanted to get into accelerated aging, lost Oh, yeah. I feel you had, you had Jefferson's that Did the ocean stuff. Right? that's a different I mean still though they Try to like recreate Yeah. But what I'm talking about. But what I'm talking about, you have bespoken Spirits Who does like an at yes. Bespoke spirits is another one. There was two of 'em. That was the that's here in Lexington, Kentucky they're still operating. The first one that originated this process went outta business, but the idea was that you use pressure, um, and heat to, and you bombard the barrel, and that pressure and heat actually makes it expand contract. Back and forth, and it causes the bourbon inside to the, the, and the wood to become more porous. So it goes in and out. And the whole idea of aging bourbon is that over seasons, it does that naturally. So they were trying to accelerate that. Yeah. Their original claim was that they could take a bourbon that was, I think six months to a year old, make it taste like something that was over 20 years old. Yeah, It was, it was a, it was a big, big so, so what I've heard From that too, from people that know more than I do about it. Is that you could recreate the part of the taste. right? You could get the oakiness, maybe you couldn't get the depth, couldn't get that nuance. You couldn't get all that concentration. You think of a 20-year-old barrel. It's when you, when you put in there, there's 55 gallons, whatever it is. When you pull it out, there's probably 20. Maybe. You know what I mean? How long it's but they're putting 55 in and taking 54 and a half out. You know what I mean? Like it's The angel. shares Yeah. Yeah. The Angels. The angel's not needs a little more these a little more thirsty, angel's like, I'm thirsty, Damn. Come on, man. Yeah. Well, Yeah. Well, and you also think that over, if you were just gonna allow things to age naturally, right? We have 12 seasons here in Kentucky, but you know, Really there's, there's four, a lot, right? So. You gotta think, okay, well if they're gonna expose those barrels to heat for six months, right? So that wood's gonna open a little bit, right? So it's got six months to develop flavor. And then it's gonna contract for six months and it's gonna do that for multiple years. I just don't understand how you can possibly in get all that out in a Well, but again, though, science tells You, you can. can, but the human palette says It's not the same. Like maybe molecular like it, it's, it's the same Right. But not taste wise, it's not But I, I see what you're saying though. It's like a hundred percent. I, Even if you could contract and expand and get that much perforation in the, of the medium into the wood in a shorter period of time, over the lengthened period of time, there's gonna be different characteristics developed. You know, by default because it is spending more time in that condition during that period. I think about like cooking something in a pressure cooker. Yeah. Yeah. That might take 30 minutes. Yeah. Versus something you put in a pot and Let it sit for six hours. or Whatever. That's different. You can tell a difference. you know? Um, and so that's the thing I'm interested in though, is from the, what they're doing with those, uh, what they're doing in warehouse x. When are we gonna start to experience some of the, or even hear about a perfect question. So what they're releasing in that is experimental collection. So You'll see a little three 70 fives. They're like little miniature kind of Buffalo Trace bottles have a white They'll release 'em. They say experimental. They do? Yeah, they say BTEC. Buffalo Trace Experimental. Collection. We've had, We've had one or two on the show. One of them was a beer barrel eggs. Remember that one we had on, here? maybe it's been a while back. go like, they they go quick. they're a small run, but now, um, none of 'em have been great in the past couple years, but the first few they released, a lot of people said they're really good. I've just never had 'em. They, They go for quite a bit of money. I'm sure And again, they're three 70 fives. Well, so what they ended up doing with Warehouse X is taking that concept and they're like, we may be onto something here. They expanded it into something bigger. It's called warehouse P. Mm-hmm. But you say, been to Warehouse. You've been to warehouse P He actually went on a tour of it. Yep. So we did a barrel pick there. Buffalo Trace Barrel pick with our, uh, my beer, group, the locals, Thanks Merv for inviting me. But, uh, also. screw you Merv.'cause you, for not gonna to warehouse X and gonna warehouse P instead Take a laugh to the They're like, whatever, whatever Where else you wanna go? Tell I'm like, XA comes nothing. My mind's access. He goes, let's go to P. I'm like, damnit. It was, It was still very cool. So warehouse P warehouses in all W and all the, oh yeah, you had to go to this So warehouse P was decent sized, I mean, I say standards size Rick house, but the main attraction to warehouse P is a cooler, essentially like a walk-in cooler. It's the biggest walk-in cooler you've probably been in. But when you walk in there's like, is the biggest warehouse XW. Really? Yeah. There's parkas hanging on. the side. Like Seriously, it's cold. So what the theory is there, what? What they told us. So we had Freddie Johnson's our tour guide, who's the man at Buffalo Trace. But anyway, walk in there. All this whiskey in there with us, all this bourbon is old. So what they're doing. Is they're taking, um, angels in, or not Angels, envy, Eagle Rare 17. That's a, that's a antique collection. release. They're taking that at 12 years old, let's say, pulling it in there, letting it age in that warehouse and pulling it out at 17, or maybe it's a Pappy 25, they're putting in there, at 18 years old, pulling it out, seven years later and doing Pappy 25. So the theory behind it is their theory was they didn't want to, what was it? How did they phrase it? I think it was, they wanted to keep the product more whole, I guess, in that, in that place. But the, real, in my mind, I'm thinking all you wanted to do was cut down the angel share, right? Yeah. You're trying to get more yield on a barrel that's a premium barrel, so a 25-year-old barrel, you might have 80% loss, but if you put an temp controlled cooler for the last seven years, you might have a 60% loss. Yeah. That 20%. percent's huge. If you're looking at a thousand dollars bottles, You know what I mean? Like you're, The I mean, the wood's not gonna absorb nearly as Mm-hmm. but that's that's what they're doing. Everything in there They're like, I mean, I hate to see the value of that warehouse, of that cooler. We were in that warehouse, where Eagle Rare 25 came Right? Double Eagle? Very rare. The old RIP 23, the 25 and whatever else they had past that, like I mean all the, all the really Highend, ultra age buffalo trace Is there. Yeah. So I mean it's, it's cool. But to walk in cooler. That's all. it is. The Whole warehouse? No. Oh, okay. I but The part that has the premium Okay. The other part of it was just standard. I don't know why. Like we didn't even tour it. It was just there. So we, I'd be, I'd actually be curious to see the rest of it, to see what else they're doing there. Because from what I understand, it is a grownup version of X, so they gotta be doing something else maybe there's a different heating system in there or something. I do remember it it looked to be inside, it It was all brick. I could be wrong, but that's what I remember. in my mind. It's been A few years back. A few bourbons ago too. Right? Yeah, no, it sounds like, 'cause when you're, when you're adapting and, and controlling for those specific issues like pressure and stuff like that, um, I, I wonder if there was an aspect of some of those, did they have different chambers in there to where maybe they could have been, because it's hard. Just add controlled pressure in a standard room. pressure Is the hardest thing out of those to Exactly. Now you could probably do it in a cooler of all places maybe. But I mean, if you're just like standardizing contemp. If you're standardizing that though, and Well, it's hard to, especially if you open and going in there, but if you're standardizing that, like I feel like that takes away from a lot of the aspect of what makes aging valuable. It's the romanticism. part of it. It is, and it goes back to what we palette like you, your, your taste. Right, right. But it goes back to what we were saying. It's just like trying to create an aspect of accelerated aging. You're, you're trying to cheat, but everybody knows that it's, it's not possible. Are they still trying to do are. I'd rather 'em cheat that way though, than try, to go the. you know, no offense, the scientific route, of like aging 20-year-old bourbon in six months. Like I, That ain't working. The other one, I mean, it could, I mean, the whole goal of warehouse P Quoted this to test if it was possible to extend favorably both the aging and maturation process. So it's a testing ground for extended aging. That's what it is. Yeah. Is Buffalo Trace the only Distillery, we know? That's doing this. the only one that I know of officially I, I can't actual warehouse. gotta be others that are, think. I think a Bardstown Bourbon Company Might have some, I mean, totally guess I bet MGP might. hell, I don't know. So I think Buffalo Traces is the most publicized. Um, warehouse X has kind of taken on a, a whole entity or an ideal of its own. I think there a lot of the big players are all doing this to some degree. It's just they don't have a f Yeah, they just don't have a formal label on it and any marketing well, Buffalo Trace has essentially unlimited phones Correct. Well, that, that was sort of my point is that they can throw. whatever they want to at this. everybody else in this, in this time right now is pulling back, you know, cutting jobs or like quitting hiring. Buffalo They're buying half of Kentucky have Jurassic Park doors on the backside of damn thing. Like seriously, we took a picture there. It took them, it took 'em like a minute and a half to open the door. I'm like, it's huge. I'm like that big wooden doors, you know? I'm like, damn, a a Ford Explorer on like a train track, just like going through. That's uh, fucking hilarious. gonna call Molder and yeah. Right, right. Yeah, here. Yeah, they're not just Asian bourbon bitch. They're fucking creating Buffalo Trace is Miss DeMar though. You can even see, I believe. And then warehouse X on the back. you know what I mean? What a little Buffalo Trace Yeah. Or I want to believe, Dude, I want I won't cut to that royalty out there. good. That's good, man. You got anything else? No, I'm good? I'm good. Uh, guys, if you like this, then please share it. For more arsenic culture, you can check us out on all the socials. We are @arsenicculture. Like and subscribe on YouTube we'll see you on the next one.