Arsenic Culture

Why Are Craft Beer Sales Down? | Ep. 155

• Arsenic Culture • Season 4 • Episode 155

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We sat down with Brandon from Ethereal Brewing to celebrate their 11-year anniversary and talk about the state of the craft beer industry. With sales dipping nationwide, shifting customer tastes, and big breweries changing strategy, we wanted to hear directly from someone who’s kept a brewery thriving for over a decade.

We cover what’s changed, why hype cycles matter, how brewing philosophies have evolved, and what the next wave of craft beer might look like. And while we’re at it, we crack open Bourbon County Brand Stout 2025 and Minutiae by Phase 3 to compare old-school vs new-school barrel-aged styles.
If you love beer talk, brewery insights, or stout nerdery, this one’s packed.


#craftbeer #beerreview #bourboncountystout

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Jason:

Drinkability or I, I, I could drink, I could drink a 10 ounce of that, no problem. I could drink a 10 ounce of this, but I'd be, it's a lot. Yeah, that's a

Brandon:

There might be problems later.

Matt:

have to do it on the toilet because it's going directly through me. Welcome back to Arsenic culture. As usual, I am Matt, and with us as usual, we have Jason Vanilla, peat Hale.

Jason:

I like that. I like that name

Matt:

Because, uh, you know, every time you give a nice peaty scotch, it's, that's where all the vanilla comes from.

Jason:

will die on that hill. But it was, it was, it scotch, peaty smokey. It was not vanilla

Matt:

is, that is the worst take. Uh, I no longer trust your palate for anything we do. And, uh, we have Brandon Bluey flown back with us.

Brandon:

I mean, I, I watch a lot of Bluey these days.

Matt:

What's up, man? Yeah. Kelly said that was the inspiration for a Shadow lands, wasn't it?

Brandon:

was a good episode.

Matt:

the fact that Bluey is calling a, an episode Shadowlands. I'm like, did they collab with like Stranger Things or something like that? Like it was very dark.'cause like Bluey goes through hell and he fights demons and

Brandon:

That's a lot more chipper than that.

Matt:

well they do it, they do it to music. So it's like, yeah, yeah, yeah. What's going on man? How you been? Pretty

Brandon:

good, man. Uh, just in the middle of our 11th anniversary.

Matt:

11th anniversary. That's crazy. Congratulations. Uh, and we are here with

Jason:

Yeah. And we, with me, actually, I got the flight over here, so we are trying 'em out. We got the Barley wine flight. Throw it in front of Brandon. There. We can read that.

Matt:

yeah. There you go.

Brandon:

there you

Jason:

there you

Matt:

That's coming out today when you guys open, uh, which means we are drinking in the morning again.

Brandon:

Oh, shucks.

Matt:

This is the Breakfast of Champions. Shout out to Kelly for, uh, hooking us up with pretzels so we don't end up just having, uh, a bunch of barley wine for

Jason:

Well, the good, the good thing is everything's pretty low. A BV, nothing. Nothing's below 10.5%.

Matt:

10 and half, all the way up to

Jason:

Nothing over six, 17, so we're

Matt:

0.3.

Brandon:

is like anniversary. I feel like you have to bring the big

Matt:

Go, go all in. Yeah. Um, we were here yesterday. Uh, you're doing is kinda like a two day thing. Is a three day thing or two day thing? Two

Brandon:

day, yeah. I mean, I,

Matt:

Sunday's just Sunday, whatever. Um, but you had a good turnout yesterday, man. There was a lot of people here. Uh, when I walked in at one point every single table was full, which is cool to see.

Brandon:

yeah. It was nice.

Matt:

Um, but congratulations on 11 years. We've, you know, we've been in and outta here a lot and we've always been big supporters of yours

Brandon:

I've, yeah. We appreciate it, man. Since,

Matt:

since back in the, uh, what was the turtle? What? Back in Bradford's driveway. Like

Jason:

gosh.

Brandon:

Baby turtle. Baby turtle.

Matt:

turtle. Baby

Jason:

turtle.

Brandon:

That the milk, stout chi, spice milk, stout. We brewed in is driveway. Yeah.

Matt:

That was, man, that was a good time. Just all sitting around and folding lawn chairs while he's brewing on the driveway.

Jason:

I was there. I believe I was

Matt:

Were you there? And the

Jason:

When Brandon was brewing

Matt:

by and we're like.

Brandon:

I mean, that was

Matt:

That's, that's the beer,

Jason:

Don't seem like it's that long ago.

Matt:

Yeah. Um, but yeah, man, congratulations. And, uh, beer. It's good to see you guys still, I guess, doing well and seeing you busy yesterday, but the whole, we've mentioned this before, the whole industry is, is down right now. And in talking with you yesterday, I know you had a few choice words over you. You, I mean, I guess you're, you're kind of a purist when it comes to, ah.

Brandon:

I mean, I'm, that's been waning as of late, but Yeah, you try and hold on

Matt:

You're, you're saying that banana, the banana milkshake is not,

Brandon:

I know. It's like, oh my God. Uh,

Matt:

Which was actually pretty

Jason:

it was tasty. It was tasty. It was tasty. Yeah.

Matt:

yeah. Uh, so I mean, there's a lot of trends that you kind of have to follow if you want to stay, I guess not ahead of the game, but even like just. Compete, I guess. Yeah. Um, but a lot of this stuff is weird and it brings up an interesting question that you and I were kind of discussing yesterday. Like, did, did we kill the industry? I mean, we as in like me and Jason, me specifically, um, these trends and there's a lot of, I think, American influence in that. But we talked about the IBU wars when everybody had to get, uh, a beer. Bitter as possible. Um, pastry, stouts, everything had to be as thick and decadent as possible, but there's, it's not sustainable, you know, um, those fruity sours that weren't sour at all, 'cause they're just pureed fruit. It's, it's good to a degree, but then we just keep pushing the envelope. And the beer nerds that buy that stuff, they're like, we need more. We need more. And then at some point you're like, whoa, that's too much. Um,

Jason:

Brandon and I talked about yesterday too, and, and Drinkability came up. Brandon was talking about that, like, if you look at a big, thick barrel aged stout with 1800 adjuncts. Um, that's great for three ounces, right? Like, but I don't know that I could drink 12. Like, it would be, it would be too much. Honestly, I'm not, I'm not trying to hide these from everybody. I'll actually, I'll

Matt:

Ho hoarding. Yeah.

Jason:

but No, so I thought, I thought what better way to kinda look at that of uh, old versus it was new, right? So we got old, which is Bourbon County just released yesterday 2025 release. They went to the 10 ounce bottles. Which I think all of us would agree. That's awesome. Yeah. Love the bottle design.

Matt:

because honestly we, they used to have the big bottles and people don't share anymore either. Yeah. So that is very solo level

Jason:

yeah, because even like a 15 ounce one, it's like, oh, I'll drink it, but I'm gonna be hurting at the end. You know, I'm gonna be hurting. So then we have phase three. This is minutia, I think is how you say it. This is from 2024. It's just their big barrel aged stout. So, um, think of like a beer barrel time. Just barrel age. No adjuncts. But thick. It is, I'm sure. Yeah. Um, and extended boil time, whatever, they've done something to it. So I thought it'd be a nice little comparison

Matt:

Yeah. Uh, we got another, I guess, new-ish product in front of us. This is a, a little brand called Never say Die bourbon. I'm gonna figure out which camera to use here. Uh, these guys are aged partially at sea, sent out to England, and then they come back. Um, never say die was a horse that ran in the, uh, it was like an English derby or derby as they pronounce it over there. Did you know that? I did. You

Jason:

know that. YI did. I did.

Matt:

liar. You

Jason:

Fucking liar. I'm not a liar.'cause our friend Andrew at Liquor Barn when he was working as the GM at Chevy Chase location. Yeah. He told me about this story before I'd even heard of the Brown.

Matt:

Oh, that's crazy. So it's getting around, but check them out at liquor store near you. We appreciate those guys for sponsoring us. Never say Die Bourbon. Um, but this is a good comparison because like you said, this is old as in the original bourbon barrel aged beer period and minutia by, uh, phase three, which

Jason:

phase three, which

Matt:

is about as current as you can get when it comes. Jesus,

Jason:

Yeah. We did, this happened yesterday too.

Matt:

you like hit both of us at the same time just attacking people. Um,

Brandon:

manhandling that,

Jason:

very

Brandon:

I've never seen anybody think wax off with their bare

Matt:

watch him pry the lid open is like, that's not a

Jason:

twist off.

Brandon:

it is now.

Jason:

Leave me alone. So, no, I mean phase three though, I'd see them inside project are probably the biggest stouts right now. The hottest stouts, the inside project and topping Goliath,

Matt:

sure. And toppling Goliath, I feel like is, was bigger than all of them, and they've kind of maybe dropped down a little bit. But is it because they can't keep that like motor oil consistency? I

Brandon:

I'm sure they can, it's just, I don't know. Is it waning that people like, I mean their stuff is like a hundred dollars bottle. Like,

Jason:

Well,

Matt:

their high-end stuff is insane and they got like the pseudo sue and stuff like that, which even that's honestly kind of expensive, their hops. Um, but uh, they, that was like one of the original like go-to like, not original, but

Brandon:

you can tell just by watching Jason pour these, how different these two beers

Jason:

there is no carb at

Matt:

have

Brandon:

That thing is like, like chocolate Hershey's. Chocolate syrup.

Jason:

Yeah.

Matt:

sludge

Jason:

I'd say there's about 8,000 calories per taster. Yeah.

Matt:

Yeah. So Brandon, you've been doing this a long time. Um, um, be be honest, honestly, like this is, this is what you do for a living and you've got.

Jason:

if you wanna lie, you can lie too, though. We don't, we don't care.

Matt:

Or you, yeah, I know you got feelings, you're not gonna offend. I don't think you're gonna offend anybody because there's probably a lot of people that share the same sentiment. Yeah. That you might have or might not have. But what do you think of when you see stuff like this? Which one is this? My, okay. I

Brandon:

I mean, to be honest, like I've personally, I've, you know, I've been increasing the viscosity of my stouts over the years, and I went to a point where I thought it was too much and it wasn't even too cl close to the

Matt:

Nowhere near the motor oil consistency

Brandon:

And I think for me, always, like, I always approach beer, well, I try and approach beer more like it is a, a beverage that should be consumed. Um, you know, in, in larger amounts than a tip, than another, any other alcoholic beverage. Right. So drinkability for me is important. The social aspect of it is, you know, you should be able to have a few pints out and hang out with people and stuff and Yeah. If it's a big stout, yeah. You're not gonna have pints of it, but, you know, hopefully you can have a glass of it, at least when you order it on draft.

Matt:

Yeah, there, there's a kind of irony to beer styles because one of my favorite beers that you make, the roon barley wine, um, for all intents and purposes, it's not a big seller. And

Brandon:

it's not, no. Barley wines are not

Matt:

It's everywhere. Like you talk to any brewery and they don't sell barley wine, which in my opinion is probably the most elegant beer that you can make as far as like beer styles go. One

Jason:

one of my favorite barrel age. I mean, yesterday we got the share King Henry from Goose Island with Brandon. And, and honestly like, I think that's kind of the pinnacle. I mean, I know we've rated it high, we did a review episode on it. There's been some hate online about that beer. And I'm like, man, I, you're not drinking the same beer I am.'cause I don't, I don't know if there's much better than that one. Like barley

Brandon:

what's their, what's their like, negative thing about

Jason:

So the people, the people that are chirping? No, the people that are

Matt:

it's not sludgy.

Brandon:

Geez.

Jason:

So they started chirping about years ago when the old Fitzgerald Barley wine they did Have you had that one from Goose Island? What'd you think of that one?

Brandon:

It was good.

Jason:

I enjoyed it. I think a lot of those people didn't like that and I think they're, they're tired of the hype. They're tired of, you know, rare. Last year was key in Kentucky barrels. You had old Fitzgerald in that one. Sierra Nevada did one in a tube. That's a Bigfoot. Looks like small batch Taylor. So I think they're fighting against that hype. Um, but it's, it's a vocal group online, some of the, some of the groups I'm in. Yeah. But I think, honestly, it was great. So, again, I got off subject there.

Matt:

No, well, that's actually completely on subject because barley wine overall just doesn't sell. And the way beer trends right now, it's, it's down overall. But could a lot of that be attributed to us pushing the envelope on stouts like this? Or barley wines mixed with stouts or pastry sours that are just blended up strawberries. And in reality, most people don't drink the barley wines. I mean, they never have. Most people like the sessionable stuff, like you said, they want stuff that they can go, I mean, if we're talking mass appeal, we're talking loggers. People want light beers. Maybe a slightly hoppy IPA. Um. But yeah, I mean, did we do it to ourselves? Did we just push the envelope so hard that the people that did care, they were just like over it? And a lot of people that didn't care still don't I? I

Brandon:

mean, I think so. I think we, we've been focusing for the, the industry's been focusing a lot on making beer not taste like beer and tastes like other things. And I think ultimately it's had a negative effect on the appeal of beer. Yeah,

Matt:

yeah.

Jason:

Well, it started with the beer nerds, the ultra beer nerds like Matt, not like me, but like Matt. Um, and, and we wanted,

Matt:

take credit for all the trends that started and ended.

Jason:

We, we, we wanted just more and more and more, more flavor, more coconut, more vanilla, more everything. But then we got real crazy when you started putting in the kitchen sink, you know, I mean, you threw in everything. We're talking, uh, the four 50 North, you know, with just exploding cans back in the day, you know, and zul now bringing it full circle, like

Matt:

the

Jason:

probably one of the best peanut butter beers, which is not a beer I've ever had.

Matt:

There's, yeah,

Jason:

I mean it's getting my, my opinion that's getting ready to hit national distro, I'd say soon when they take over southern grist.

Matt:

the thing is they're really good,

Jason:

though. They are, but how many you

Matt:

It's hard to imagine that still like getting mass appeal. I can drink one of those cans maybe a week, maybe two weeks. I mean, it's delicious for what it

Brandon:

Super high calorie

Matt:

it's 400 calories in that one can. And I enjoy the way it tastes, but I mean, I can't drink more than one in a long period of time. Um, there's, I mean, they're, I guess they're still selling it, but a lot of people aren't. And, uh, I remember that we went up to homes, uh, when we went on a trip, maybe our, was our Michigan beer trip, and that was the first or second time we had the, uh, what were the, the smooch. The smooch. And they were pushing that really hard.

Jason:

Have a certain, uh, another brand for it. Right. It's like their homes backward or so, something weird like that.

Matt:

Yeah. I remember

Jason:

Semo Brewing. I don't know. Can't remember

Matt:

and we tried that and collectively we all were kind of the same. We're like, this is good, but what the hell is it?

Jason:

Well, in the homes they also do the candy bar stouts. The anniversary stuff they do are literally just like tons of candy bars added into a stout base like this. But what do you think about these two? I mean, clearly the looks different. The taste is different. Everything's

Brandon:

yeah, they're pretty starkly different,

Jason:

Yeah, they are. And they look, I mean they look similar, right? I mean, they're dark. Um, but if you move it around the glass, you can really tell that minutia, um, is sticking to the glass.

Brandon:

like twice the density.

Matt:

Good luck washing those out later. Kelly. Sorry.

Brandon:

Just change the dish water right after.

Matt:

She's over there like, damn, these

Jason:

Damn. These guys.

Matt:

Um, I will preface, uh, anything we say about it first by saying. Um, this year's Bourbon County brand, stout Base is really

Brandon:

Oh yeah.

Matt:

Like I, this might be my favorite in a while, and I don't usually go outta my way to hoard them every year, but I'll always get at least one, and I think it's, it's on point this year. I don't know if what they did different, I'm sure there's maybe a

Brandon:

they probably, yeah, I mean they probably tweak the recipe a little bit too. I guarantee you it's gotten, you know, they've done the same thing where they've made it a thicker beer year after year. Like, you know, to a point, because I'm sure if we had the beer that was brewed the first time back in like 95 or whatever it was, that they would, it would be thin as shit.

Matt:

Yeah.

Jason:

Yeah. Taste like more barrel probably coming through. Yeah. But what do you think about these? I mean, I think, I think the new age beer drinker, if we talk about that person is gonna lean towards the minutiae just because it's probably what they expect in a big barrel aged out. If you, if you've never had Goose Allen in Bourbon County, but you've had that, when you would definitely think, what the hell is this?

Matt:

Oh yeah. Which is sad because.

Jason:

It is sad. It is sad, but you know, it's kind of where we're at.

Matt:

what do you, what do you think of him? What do you prefer or what's your opinion

Jason:

man? So I'm kind of right in the middle. Like I, I wish, I wish the goose island, like if I'm really being critical of it, could it be just a touch thicker, like 10% better mouth fill? Yeah. But then this one over here, when I drink 'em side by side, the minouse almost too thick. Yeah, yeah. Side by side. It's like, it's like a little too thick. It's almost like blend 'em together. Um, you look at the difference, so I don't know how long Goose Island age theirs. Yeah, but the minutia was a blend from anywhere from two years to almost four

Matt:

Okay. That's

Jason:

crazy of barrel

Brandon:

know, I, to be honest, like I get more oak flavor out of the Bourbon

Jason:

agree. And I think it's 'cause of the body. Yeah. I think that body, that sticky, sweet, really thick, almost hides some of those nuanced notes for

Brandon:

Yeah. I mean, I think nuances all, there's a lot more nuance to the Bourbon County as far as just, there's a more, a wider spectrum of flavors. I'm getting outta that one. I'm getting just like chocolate and like, you know, it's really good. It's an intense flavor. Coming out of the minutiae, but um, it seems to be a little bit not as complex to me on the palette.

Matt:

a little cold. It

Jason:

It's a little cold. This was room temperature and that was in

Matt:

yeah, I, I think with that phase three, I think it needs to be served room temperature because Yeah, that's the only way,

Brandon:

didn't, yeah.

Matt:

that's the only way you're gonna get those flavors out of it, like you can get. But I agree with you, like the Bourbon County is. It, it's, my tongue likes it more. Um, I'm,

Jason:

here? I, I could drink, I could drink a 10 ounce of that. No problem. I could drink a 10 ounce of this, but I'd be, it's a lot. Yeah, that's a

Brandon:

There might be problems later.

Matt:

to do it on the toilet because it's going directly through me. Uh, this might sound like a cop out, but I like both of these for different

Jason:

is

Brandon:

is a cop. Yeah, I agree.

Matt:

But there's like, I can, I can find, I can enjoy both of these for what they are. Um, and I don't necessarily like one better than the other, if you're gonna put a gun to my head. Honestly, I think the Bourbon County is, is, is better all around. Um, and, and maybe it's because literally just the temperature, but for what they are, I mean, there are moments to where we'll open A BBT, you know, it would be like, oh my gosh, this is the best thing ever. But it's the same thing with the, with the Bourbon County, as ubiquitous as it is, there's a lot of moments where like, that hits the spot and I'll want that. I'll go out for that, you know? I

Jason:

I know we're a little bit off subject here, or I'm a little bit off subject, but I wanted to ask Brandon while he is on here too, and man, I guess we, you know, care about your opinion a little

Matt:

don't have No, I don't even wanna talk anymore. I'm just

Jason:

I, I, it's fine. Actually, be better if you didn't, but,

Matt:

handle the rest of the show.

Jason:

oh yeah, I got this. Hell yeah. Mean and Brandon Got it. But, um, I'm

Matt:

mute my mic and eat pretzels.

Jason:

Where do you, where, where do you think, where do you think beer's going? Like, I feel like we've came, I mean, even from a beer nerd perspective or from a regular consumer, like where else is there to go? I'm kind of like, I don't, I don't know.

Brandon:

Yeah, I mean, I, I can say, I can speak of like seeing our sales trends we're. We are seeing kind of, um, I mean we made more laggers last year than we did any previous year. We've seen an uptick in West coast. IPA, uh, when we kind of rebranded Waterland and went West coast it and leaned it out. It really like tripled in sales. Um, and yeah, I mean, fantastic. Our hazy is still like our number one IPA, but um, I think we're just seeing a lot more people like something that is crisp and it is refreshing. Um, we see that sales trend, those sales trends happening, but, um, the bigger, the bigger A BV stuff too, like we, we, we've cut back dramatically or drastically, um, on making barrelage things like bla font. I'm not sure if I'm ever gonna make it again.'cause you know, when we have it on tap, you know, it's on tap for six plus months and yeah, it's gonna be great, you know, that whole time. But it's also kind of depressing just to.

Jason:

You could put in a barrel and forget it downstairs for like three years and then see what

Matt:

is, this is also off topic, but could you do Blair fun and just bottle it?

Brandon:

Uh, yeah. I mean, but

Matt:

like a small batch and then that way it just sit there.

Brandon:

Yeah. It's kind of, I

Matt:

come in, we can grab a bottle every month or something.

Brandon:

I mean, I love barley wine so much, and that's one of the reasons why I like, well, you know, I did had fun today and made like four different barley wines, but, um, it's just, yeah. Um, my scale 10 barrels is just too much

Matt:

Oh, yeah. Yeah. Oh, oh. Could, could you scale it down? Do you have a smaller system you

Brandon:

I don't have a smaller system. No, not

Matt:

I thought you all had an experimental

Brandon:

mean, I have like a 10 gallon, but like

Jason:

be

Brandon:

fuck that. It takes me the same amount of time to make 10 gallons or 350

Matt:

inefficient. Yeah. Uh, okay.

Jason:

Yeah. But I look at the trends. I think you're right. I mean, we go to the Borough Brew over here sometimes to watch games. Oh yeah. And you know what we find ourselves probably drinking is the amber or like a lagger. Just

Brandon:

I love his, his amber lagger is is

Jason:

is, but it's one of those things too. Like I'm watching a game, I'm there for the game and I don't want to have a barrel age stout. You know, I don't, I don't wanna have just one beer. I want to have a few, you know, just hanging out. So I do think that trend there,

Matt:

Something like this, like we're drinking right here. This commands attention. Something like a logger, it's, it doesn't require tension. It lets you do something else. Yeah. Yeah. So you, you kind of have to focus on this like we're doing right now, but I think the trends are. They feel cyclical. Um, we've never seen a craft beer boom like we did in our, in anybody's lives. It's never been a thing. Um, and it was huge and it surged. I mean, starting a brewery lit bank was just like, take all the money that you want.

Brandon:

It was crazy

Matt:

It was absolutely insane. And now you're seeing a lot of those, excuse me, a lot of those breweries closing. And a lot of these, the products, like we're drinking right now, the sales are down, but there is a return, um, to the lighter stuff like the loggers and the. Um, maybe the lighter IPAs that really were the gateway into craft beer that like led it into becoming something more than what it is. You know, the whole research or the, not resurgence, but the emergence of craft beer was trying to get away from macro lager. You know, it's just like, yeah. Yeah. It's just like, don't drink their lag or drink our ales.

Jason:

s Yeah. But it

Matt:

then it was light, but then it got heavier. And it got heavier and there's more IBUs and there's more fruit and there's more stouts. And now we're kind of, it's like a return

Jason:

nowhere to go. Really? Yeah. Yeah.

Matt:

It's like a bell curve.

Brandon:

And so yeah, hopefully when we scoot back down, we catch a bunch of new drinkers or new, you know, people coming into the, the scene. Yeah.

Jason:

Well, that's the thing. I mean, I, you know, I think a new person drinking is used to those fruited sours, like a zul or like a four 15 North, that'll tell you, I love sours. You don't love sours. You love overly fruited seltzers, you know what I mean? Or whatever you want to call it, but.

Brandon:

forbid you put a mixed culture beer on top and you're gonna see that just sit there forever.

Jason:

ask side project. They have to bundle all their damn beers with their

Brandon:

And their, their C zones are phenomenal. I had one yesterday at the Shaman. I was just like, this thing is so expressive

Matt:

yeah, but the average person is like, why does this take taste like my dog's bed? Like

Jason:

Why is this sour? I don't want, I want fruit.

Brandon:

Yeah. Even

Jason:

Yeah.

Matt:

the, yeah, the funky ones. Stuff like that. I think in maybe 15 years I could see, you know, beer getting back into something a little bit more creative. Some like weird style where people are like, Hey, let's, this is something we haven't tried in a while. Let's get back in the beer and then, you know, something can kind of re you know, resurge there. So that's, that's

Brandon:

my be hopeful about

Matt:

about it. Yeah. Yeah. You guys are still doing well. I mean, from what I can

Brandon:

no, honestly,

Matt:

out, so I'm very

Brandon:

I'm very grateful that, you know, people still show up for when we make a beer. Um, it does mean a lot. It, like, it is tough out there. Like we see breweries, big ones too, closing every day

Matt:

Rogue just closed Rogue out of, uh, Oregon. Oregon. Could you imagine? Like they were everywhere back in the day. They

Jason:

were, they had some crazy beers too. The beer. Beer and all that stuff. They did. Yeah. I

Matt:

still had that bottle. I got, I got it signed by, uh, what's his name? Yeah, the brewer. Hey,

Brandon:

Oh yeah.

Matt:

Yeah. It wasn't a good beer.

Brandon:

They had some really good ones. Yeah. Yeah. That, I mean,

Matt:

cool. That's

Brandon:

it's crazy though. Yeah. When you see like some of the beers that like got you into craft beer and then you see those breweries go out of business, it's kind of, it shakes you a little bit,

Matt:

Well, uh, year 11, congratulations. And here's to 15 more years when beer comes back.

Jason:

Cheers

Matt:

That's years, man. Uh, guys, we appreciate you, uh, share this if you want to. And,

Jason:

even if you don't

Matt:

yeah. For more arsenic culture, you can check us out on all the socials we are @arsenicculture, Like

Jason:

subscribe on YouTube,

Matt:

you on the next one.